Pro and Con 1258

Posted 11-26-05

Ed and I, full of turkey on Thanksgiving

My outgoing email, Re: "go again the 3rd time", from CAPS's email on Pro and Con 127

> > #3 FOR MARILYN AGEE (Mon 15 Jun 1998)
> > MARILYN --HERE IS THE THIRD WORD: (from his brother)

> > "ALTHOUGH YOU WENT FORTH AT THE FIRST DO NOT LET THE SPIRIT OF SLUMBER STEAL YOUR SONG. GO AGAIN THE 3RD TIME AND WAKE FROM SLEEP AND ENTER THE REST PREPARED FOR YOU. IF YOU HAD BEEN ASKED TO DO A DIFFICULT THING FOR YOUR REST--WOULD YOU NOT HAVE DONE IT? NOW IS THE TIME FOR WATCHING IN THIS HOUR OF REVEALING AND REST."---END OF WORD.

> > FOR MARILYN AGEE--4TH WORD
YESTERDAY IN CHURCH I BELIEVE I RECEIVED THE FOLLOWING WORD: "I AM EVEN NOW AT THE DOOR".---END OF WORD.

On November 10, 2005, I saw a large cookie-cutter-perfect rectangular open doorway cut in a black cloud in the western sky. It had a white threshold, and I could see white clouds and blue sky off in the distance through the doorway. That ties in with your "WORD: "I AM EVEN NOW AT THE DOOR".

Gen. 7:11,12 says, "In the second month, the seventeenth day of the month (Cheshvan 17), the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth FORTY DAYS AND FORTY NIGHTS."

Your brother's word,"GO AGAIN THE 3RD TIME" (Pro and Con 127), might fit THE THIRD DAY OF HANUKKAH, 2005.

1. Jesus said that the Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37f).
2. Noah went into the Ark and "the Lord shut him in" on Cheshvan 17.
3. The "windows of heaven were opened"
4. It rained that same day and continued FORTY DAYS AND FORTY NIGHTS.
5. Starting with Cheshvan 17, 5766, the 40th day will be Kislev 27, 5766, our December 28, 2005, THE THIRD DAY OF HANUKKAH, the Feast of Dedication of the temple.

We are "the temple of God" (I Cor. 3:16), and Jesus is the foundation of the temple of the Lord. I Cor. 3:11 says, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

John 2:19-21 says, "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy THIS TEMPLE, AND IN THREE DAYS I WILL RAISE IT UP...HE SPAKE OF THE TEMPLE OF HIS BODY." He is the head, and we are part of the Body of Christ. Will we be raised up on the third day?

Mark 14:58 says, "We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within THREE DAYS I will build ANOTHER MADE WITHOUT HANDS."

Haggai 2:18,19 says, "Consider now FROM THIS DAY AND UPWARD, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24, date of Jesus' conception), even from the day that the foundation (Jesus) of the LORD'S temple was laid (i.e., conceived), consider it. Is the seed ('seed of the woman, i.e., Jesus, Gen. 3:15) yet in the barn (a feminine word, i.e., is the virgin pregnant)? yea (YES), as yet the vine (Christ), and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate (Bride, Song of Solomon), and the olive tree (Israel, but Gentiles can be grafted in), hath not brought forth: FROM THIS DAY (KISLEV 24) WILL I BLESS YOU."

The Lord was not talking about the first two temples, for they were both started in Iyar. He is talking about the temple of his body. Solomon's temple was started Iyar 2 (I Kings 37; II Chron 3:2). The second temple was begun in Iyar also (Ezra 3:8).

Kislev 24 is the Eve of Hanukkah, the Feast of Lights, i.e., wise virgins. Upward from the day of Jesus' Conception are Kislev 25 (Hanukkah), Kislev 26, and Kislev 27. Will we be raised up on Kislev 27 (December 28, 2005)? Remember, Jesus said, "IN THREE DAYS I WILL RAISE IT UP."

Noah was shut into the Ark on Cheshvan 17. The Ark floated free of the Earth on the 40th day of rain. (Gen. 7:17) FORTY DAYS FROM CHESHVAN 17 IS WEDNESDAY, KISLEV 27 (DECEMBER 28, 2005). Will we float free of the Earth on December 28, 2005? Jesus arose after THREE DAYS. I hope we will too.

Act 1:3 says, "he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them FORTY DAYS, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God".

How close is the present Hebrew Calendar to the Great World Calendar started by God in Adam's day?

It seems that a sign in the heavens repeats every Tishri 1, and has at least from the Sabbath when God rested after creating Adam to now. This is the Great World Calendar that God set up in the beginning. Rev 12:1-5 says, "there appeared a great wonder in heaven; A WOMAN (VIRGO) CLOTHED WITH THE SUN, AND THE MOON UNDER HER FEET, and upon (or over) her head a crown of twelve stars (Corona Borealis). And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered....And she brought forth a man child (Jesus), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up (harpazo, as at the Rapture in I Thess. 4:16,17) unto God, and to his throne." This is proof that Jesus was born on Tishri 1.

Below is the sky chart for Tishri 1, 283 BJE (before Jewish Era), September 18, 4044 BC. (Not enough of Virgo is showing to see the name. Look at Virgo on the next chart. In this one, her feet are near the "t" in Caput.)
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Yoursky

Below is the sky on Monday, Tishri 1, 3757 (September 4, 5 BC), when Jesus was born. The sign was perfect. Virgo was clothed with the setting Sun. The Crescent Moon was at her feet.

...Near the end of December, 2005, Saturn (Heaven) will...be up all night. It is now in Cancer, which symbolizes Heaven, the holding place....Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Advent & Chanukah

Shalom Marilyn J. Agee!
So you think Moshiach is going to have a second Advent on Chanukah this year? http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee/

Would you like to have a dialogue in this regard? Sincerely

My reply

Not the Second Advent, the First Rapture.

I'm always open to discuss interpreting the Bible. Very often, two heads are better than one. We can learn from one another. It seems that the Lord gives each one understanding of different areas. We can see a bigger picture when we put them together.

I think there are two Advents, when Yeshua sets his feet on Earth, and two Raptures, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath, when he meets the saints in the clouds.

FIRST ADVENT

Yeshua's conception, Sunday, Kislev 24, 3756 (Dec. 5, 6 BC, Julian) (Haggai 2:18,19)
His birth 274 days later, Monday, Tishri 1, 3757 (September 4, 5 BC)
His crucifixion, Preparation of the Passover, Thursday, Nisan 13, 3790 (April 6, 30 AD, Julian)
His burial in the stone tomb, Thursday, between the evenings, i.e., between 3 and 5 PM, Nisan 13
Feast of Passover, Fri., Nisan 14, 3790 (April 7), lambs must be roasted and eaten between 6 PM and midnight
Feast of Unleavened Bread, Saturday, Nisan 15, 3790 (April 8)
His Resurrection, Sunday, Feast of Firstfruits, Nisan 16, 3790 (April 9)
His ascension, AFTER BEING SEEN 40 DAYS, Tuesday, Iyar 25, 3790 (May 16)

FIRST TRUMP, THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE POSSIBLE ON THE THIRD DAY OF HANUKKAH - AFTER A 40-DAY COUNTDOWN FROM CHESHVAN 17

The first Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37f). Noah was shut into the Ark on Cheshvan 17 (Gen. 7:11). On that same day, the 40 days and 40 nights of rain began (Gen. 7:12). As soon as the Ark was lifted up off of the Earth, the rain stopped.

Just as Yeshua ascended after being seen 40 days, the Bride of Christ could ascend after a 40-day countdown. Acts 1:3 says, "To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them FORTY DAYS, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God". Acts 1:9-11 says, "when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." This coming will be in the clouds. It seems likely that the Pre-Trib Rapture will follow a 40-day countdown.

Noah entered the Ark on Cheshvan 17 (Gen. 7:11). FORTY DAYS later the rain stopped (Gen. 7:17). This year, the 40th day will be Thursday, Kislev 27, December 28, the THIRD DAY of Hanukkah. At midnight, Mars is about to set, leaving Saturn as the only planet in the sky by 12:30 AM. Saturn is Heaven, and it is in Cancer, which symbolizes Heaven as the holding place.

Yeshua is the temple of the LORD. II Cor. 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself".

Rev 21:22 says, "I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. In John 2:19,20, Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in THREE DAYS? BUT HE SPAKE OF THE TEMPLE OF HIS BODY."

SECOND TRUMP, THE PRE-WRATH RAPTURE ON THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH

Destruction will come at noon on the Day of God's Wrath, Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be HID (i.e., raptured) in the day of the LORD'S anger. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast".

I think the Day of God's Wrath will be Thursday, Tishri 1, 5771 (Sept. 9, 2010).

SECOND ADVENT

The Second Advent should come 7 months later, Tuesday, Nisan 1, 5771 (LY), the 1st day of the Regnal and Sacred Year (April 5, 2011). Eze. 38:20 tells what will happen when the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 hit Earth on the Day of God's Wrath. The cities will be ruined, for every wall will fall in the worldwide earthquake. It will take 7 months for the Jews to bury the dead and cleanse the land for the glorious return of Christ (Eze. 39:12,13). ...Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Book of Jubilees

Thanks for the comments. What are your thoughts on the Book of Jubilees, understanding, of course that it is not Scripture? According to the quote below, all the following happened on the 17th day of the second month: (1) Adam's creation, (2) the serpent approached Eve, and (3) Noah entered the ark (which we know from Genesis.

Jubilees 3: 15-17 at http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/jubilee/3.htm says, "And in the first week of the first jubilee, [1-7 A.M.] Adam and his wife were in the garden of Eden for seven years tilling and keeping it, and we gave him work and we instructed him to do everything that is suitable for tillage. And he tilled (the garden), and was naked and knew it not, and was not ashamed, and he protected the garden from the birds and beasts and cattle, and gathered its fruit, and eat, and put aside the residue for himself and for his wife [and put aside that which was being kept]. And after the completion of the seven years, which he had completed there, seven years exactly, [8 A.M.] and in the second month, on the seventeenth day (of the month), the serpent came and approached the woman, and the serpent said to the woman, 'Hath God commanded you, saying, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?' Jubilees 3:32 also says, "And on the new moon of the fourth month, Adam and his wife went forth from the Garden of Eden, and they dwelt in the land of Elda in the land of their creation." Chapter 3 of the Bible does not give the month and the day in which these events happened.

According to the book of Jubilees, it looks like the first sin was committed 7 years after Adam was created; and Eve was tempted on the 17th day of the 2nd month (Jewish month of Bul also known as Cheshvan or Heshvan which falls in Oct.-Nov.) which is the same day that the flood in Noah's days began according to Jubilees chapter 5, and according to Genesis chapter 7 in the verses below

My reply

I decided to start reading the Book of Jubilees again looking for places that disagree with my understanding of the Bible. If Moses wrote it, as claimed, it should agree with what he wrote in the Bible.

The first thing I noticed was that the writer thought that God created the Sun, Moon and stars on the 4th day. The word bara (create) is not used there. It is only used 3 times in Gen. 1, for creation in the beginning (Gen. 1:1), for creation of the whales, etc. (1:21), and for creation of man (1:27). Asah (made, refashioned from already existing materials) is used instead. I think that on the 4th day, the overcast skies cleared enough for the already existing Sun, Moon and stars to be seen.

The Book of Jubilees
http://exodus2006.com/jub1-9.htm
2:8-10 says, "And on the fourth day He created the sun and the moon and the stars, and set them in the firmament of the heaven, to give light upon all the earth, and to rule over the day and the night, and divide the 9 light from the darkness. And God appointed the sun to be a great sign on the earth for days and 10 for sabbaths and for months and for feasts and for years and for sabbaths of years and for jubilees and for all seasons of the years."

I think the Moon is for months instead of the Sun, which is for days. The positions of both the Sun and Moon seem to determine when the New Year begins. It looks like Virgo must be clothed with the Sun and the Crescent Moon under her feet (Rev. 12:1f) on every true Tishri 1, starting with the day God rested. No wonder they had to watch for the crescent Moon.

25 "and law, even as He had sanctified and blessed the Sabbath day on the seventh day. He created heaven and earth and everything that He created in six days, and God made the seventh day holy, for all His works; therefore He commanded on its behalf that, whoever does any work thereon 26 shall die, and that he who defiles it shall surely die...."

Isn't that adding something that God didn't say? Gen. 2:3 merely says, "God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." It doesn't say anything about one who works on the Sabbath will die.

29 "they should not prepare thereon anything to be eaten or drunk, and (that it is not lawful) to draw water, or bring in or take out thereon through their gates any burden, 30 which they had not prepared for themselves on the sixth day in their dwellings. And they shall not bring in nor take out from house to house on that day; for that day is more holy and blessed than any jubilee day of the jubilees; on this we kept Sabbath in the heavens before it was made".

Who is "we" that kept Sabbath in the heavens? God or angels?

3:15 "And in the first week of the first jubilee, [1-7 A.M.] Adam and his wife were in the garden of Eden for seven years tilling and keeping it, and we gave him work and we instructed him to do everything 16 that is suitable for tillage."

Who is "we"? God or angels? No other man was there with Adam and Eve.

3:17 "And after the completion of the seven years, which he had completed there, seven years exactly, [8 A.M.] and in the second month, on the seventeenth day (of the month), the serpent came and approached the woman, and the serpent said to the woman, 'Hath God commanded you,
18 saying, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?'"

I think "seven years exactly" would be on Tishri 1, not Cheshvan 17.

3:27 "And on that day on which Adam went forth from the Garden, he offered as a sweet savour an offering, frankincense, galbanum, and stacte, and spices in the morning with the 28 rising of the sun from the day when he covered his shame. And on that day was closed the mouth of all beasts, and of cattle, and of birds, and of whatever walks, and of whatever moves, so that they could no longer speak: for they had all spoken one with another with one lip and with one tongue."

As far as I can tell, the serpent was the only animal that spoke in those days.

32 "And on the new moon of the fourth month, Adam and his wife went 33 forth from the Garden of Eden"

I wonder why they didn't go out on Cheshvan 17.

4:6 "the man who has seen and not declared (it), let him be accursed as the other.' And for this reason we announce when we come before the Lord our God all the sin which is committed in heaven and 7 on earth, and in light and in darkness, and everywhere."

Who is "we" that knows what sin is committed in heaven? Job 4:18 says, "...his angels he charged with folly."

Who comes before the Lord our God to accuse? Job 1:6-9 says, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

The sons of God here are angels. The reason they are called sons of God like Adam is because they were each individually created by God. Luke 3:38 says, "...Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."

It looks to me like the sons of God have shown their hand. Therefore, I expect the book to be a mixture of truth and lies. I can't trust what it says. I don't think Moses wrote it.

4:9 ...week [134-40 A.M.] he (Adam) begat his daughter Azura. And Cain took Awan his sister to be his wife and she bare him Enoch at the close of the fourth jubilee. [190-196 A.M.] And in the first year of the first week of the fifth jubilee, [197 A.M.] houses were built on the earth, and Cain built a city, and called its name after the name of 10, 11 his son Enoch. And Adam knew Eve his wife and she bare yet nine sons. And in the fifth week of the fifth jubilee [225-31 A.M.] Seth took Azura his sister to be his wife".

The angels might be telling the truth here, but we can't be sure.

4:15 "[461 A.M.] and he called his name Jared, for in his days the angels of the Lord descended on the earth, those who are named the Watchers, that they should instruct the children of men, and that they should do 16 judgment and uprightness on the earth."

It still sounds much like the angels are talking.

4:17 "he called his name Enoch. And he was the first among men that are born on earth who learnt writing and knowledge and wisdom and who wrote down the signs of heaven according to the order of their months in a book, that men might know the seasons of the years according to the order of 18 their separate months. And he was the first to write a testimony and he testified to the sons of men among the generations of the earth, and recounted the weeks of the jubilees, and made known to them the days of the years, and set in order the months and recounted the Sabbaths of the years 19 as we made (them), known to him. And what was and what will be he saw in a vision of his sleep, as it will happen to the children of men throughout their generations until the day of judgment; he saw and understood everything, and wrote his testimony, and placed the testimony on earth for all 20 the children of men and for their generations."

For sure, Enoch (descended from Seth) was a prophet. Jude 1:14 says, "Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints". He would have received inspiration from the Lord in some way.

Enoch probably told Adam, Seth and his children how to draw the Zodiac, God's picture book of the gospel in the stars. Josephus said of the children of Seth, "They also were the inventors of that peculiar sort of wisdom which is concerned with the heavenly bodies, and their order" (Ant. I. II. 3).

"21 Methuselah. And he was moreover with the angels of God these six jubilees of years, and they showed him everything which is on earth and in the heavens, the rule of the sun, and he wrote down 22 everything. And he testified to the Watchers, who had sinned with the daughters of men; for these had begun to unite themselves, so as to be defiled, with the daughters of men, and Enoch 23 testified against (them) all. And he was taken from amongst the children of men, and we conducted him into the Garden of Eden in majesty and honour, and behold there he writes down the con- 24 demnation and judgment of the world, and all the wickedness of the children of men.... 26 For the Lord has four places on the earth, the Garden of Eden, and the Mount of the East, and this mountain on which thou art this day, Mount Sinai, and Mount Zion (which) will be sanctified in the new creation for a sanctification of the earth".

I think Hebrews 11:5 shows that Enoch was taken to Heaven, not to the Garden of Eden on Earth. It says, "By faith Enoch was translated (metatithemi, removed, transported, transfered) that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

Col 1:13 says, "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated (methistemi, carried away) us into the kingdom of his dear Son".

Re: Noah, 6:1,2: "And on the new moon of the third month (Kislev 1) he went forth from the ark, and built an altar on that mountain."

Noah left the Ark on Cheshvan 27. Gen 8:14-16 says, "in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried. And God spake unto Noah, saying, Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee."

I don't think these transmissions can be trusted. Agape

His reply

Thanks. You are so thorough!

Well, we know it is not Scripture, thus it is automatically suspect.

But as with all historical documents, that does not mean it is without some merit. Moses' authorship is probably questionable.

My reply

It gives some names of wives which are omitted from the Bible. Where did the author get that information? The angels should know that. They have been around a long time.

I scanned the rest of the Book of Jubilees. Wondering when it was written, I searched some more. The article below says, "2nd century B.C.E."
---
Book of Jubilees, By John Bruno Hare
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/jub/

The Book of Jubilees, probably written in the 2nd century B.C.E., is an account of the Biblical history of the world from creation to Moses. It is divided into periods ('Jubilees') of 49 years. For the most part the narrative follows the familiar account in Genesis, but with some additional details such as the names of Adam and Eve's daughters, and an active role for a demonic entity called 'Mastema'.
---
The prince Mastema sounds much like the accuser Satan did when he was talking about Job.

17:16 says, "the prince Mastema came and said before God, 'Behold, Abraham loves Isaac his son, and he delights in him above all things else; bid him offer him as a burnt-offering on the altar, and Thou wilt see if he will do this command, and Thou wilt know if he is faithful in everything wherein Thou dost try him."

18:9 "to slay Isaac his son. And I stood before him, and before the prince Mastema, and the Lord said, 'Bid him not to lay his hand on the lad, nor to do anything to him, for I have shown that he fears
10 the Lord.' And I called to him from heaven, and said unto him: 'Abraham, Abraham;' and he
11 was terrified and said: 'Behold, (here) am I.' And I said unto him: 'Lay not thy hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything to him; for now I have shown that thou fearest the Lord, and hast
12 not withheld thy son, thy first-born son, from me.' And the prince Mastema was put to shame; and Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold a ram"
---
Job 1:6-11 says, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face." Satan got fooled. As Abraham did, Job passed his test. Agape

Pro and Con 1259 Or Return

Contact me for more information at: mjagee1@earthlink.net

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (951) 653-4110