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Pro and Con 1330

Posted 4-17-07

Water in Saturn's atmosphere

http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/

The bright areas represent high hazes and clouds near the top of Saturn's troposphere. The rings are overexposed and were not the intended subject of the imaging effort.

Researchers have speculated that the bright cloud patterns there are associated with WATER-MOIST CONVECTION ARISING FROM A DEEPER ATMOSPHERIC LEVEL WHERE WATER CONDENSES ON SATURN, and rising to levels at or above the visible cloud tops.

Shelva's Dream, posted on Five Doves site

From: Patty (14 Apr 2007)

I have been reading 5Doves for awhile now and have never written in. My daughter has been seeing the number 7:47 on the clock for many years now and has always wondered what significance it had. There is much information now, on Doves about these numbers.

SHE ALSO JUST HAD A DREAM ABOUT PULLING A HUGE PIECE OF WAX FROM HER EAR. WE BOTH THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH EITHER THE LORD REVEALING SOMETHING ASTOUNDING TO US, or that He is getting us ready to hear specific things that He wants us to hear.

One other thing, as she was reading Louis's post on the Song of Solomon being prophetic about the timing of the rapture, she remembered that the Solomon Islands were raised 10 feet as a result of the earthquake. Being raised up and the number 10 has us wondering. We looked up the number 10 in the prophetic dictionary and it is the number of God's Divine Law. Spiritual significance includes His eternal injunctions, statutes, commands, and edicts. COULD THE COMMAND TO "COME UP HERE". BE AROUND THE CORNER. Just Pondering. Yours in Yeshua

My reply

Pulling wax from ear could mean we can now know when the Rapture will take place. Iyar 26, 5727 (beginning of Six-Day War) plus 40-year generation is Iyar 26, 5767, May 14, 2007, Ascension Day. A 747 is an airplane. Therefore, it could mean we will fly in the Rapture. Agape

Note: It is also interesting that the news about this dream of pulling wax from her ear was one month before Ascension Day--April 14 to May 14. "COULD THE COMMAND TO 'COME UP HERE'. BE AROUND THE CORNER"? It seems that way.

1517 + 490 years = 2007

SURPRISING PARALLELS

The Ottoman Turks took Jerusalem in 1517, and Martin Luther tacked his 95 theses to the church door in Wittenberg, German, starting the Reformation on Oct. 31, 1517 (5278).

5278 + 400 years (Acts 7:7) = 5678 (1917,1918), Jerusalem freed in 1917 after 400 yrs of bondage
5278 + 430 years (Ex 12:41) = 5708 (l947/1948), Israel became a nation in 1948
5278 + 450 years (Acts 13:20,21) = 5728 (1967/1968), Temple Mount taken in Six-Day War, 1967
5278 + 480 years (I Kings 6:1) = 5748 (1997/1998), 6000th year since Adam left Garden of Eden
5278 + 490 years (Dan 9:24) = 5768 (2007/2008), Rapture, May 14, 2007? (40 yrs after Six-Day War)

FORTY DAYS TO ASCENSION DAY, A DAY FOR A YEAR PATTERN?

Gen 7:17 says, "And the flood was FORTY DAYS upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and IT WAS LIFT UP ABOVE THE EARTH."

Acts 1:3 says, "To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them FORTY DAYS, AND SPEAKING OF THE THINGS PERTAINING TO THE KINGDOM OF GOD".

LukE 21:29-32 says, "And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7), and all the trees (nations); When they now shoot forth (Six-Day War, June 5, 1967), ye see and know of your own selves that summer (June 21) is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that THE KINGDOM OF GOD is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, THIS GENERATION (FORTY YEARS) SHALL NOT PASS AWAY, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED."

"WEIRD dream - Yahshua's resurrection!"

Peggy McIlveene (14 Apr 2007) on Five Doves site
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2007/apr5-2007.htm

> > I dreamed last night (Friday, 4/13) that our bedroom was at one end of a hallway, and Yahshua (Jesus) was dead in a bedroom at the other end of the hallway. On the third night, we opened our bedroom door and looked down into His room, and there He stood, in silhouette against BRIGHT light! We went to Him (He called to Richard, though not verbally, but rather in both our minds. I followed Him, and we embraced Him and worshipped Him! It was wonderful, and He was SO beautiful!!!

> > How odd was that??? Do any of you understand why I would dream such an odd thing? He's been resurrected for over 2,000 years!

> > Love to you all in Him!
> > Peggy, www.his-forever.com

My reply

Hi Peggy: There may be a very good reason why you would dream of going to Jesus on 4-13-2007.

You might go to Jesus in the Rapture on 5-13/14, 2007. That is Ascension Day.

I Cor 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (lit., ages) are come."

The Israelites were tried 40 years in the desert, then went into their promised land. The trial of our faith is probably 40 years, then we will go into our promised land, Heaven.

The Six-Day War, in which Israel regained the Temple Mount, started on June 5, 1967, Iyar 26, 5727, Ascension Day. Forty years afterward is Ascension Day, Iyar 26, 5767 (5-13/14, 2007).

Jesus ascended on the 40th day. We will probably ascend in the 40th year.

In 30 AD, the Holy Spirit was poured out on believers on Pentecost, the 50th day.

In 2017, he Holy Spirit will probably be poured out again on the Jubilee, the 50th year after the Six-Day War.

The Second Advent will probably be Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016.

The Jubilee Year will probably start Nisan 1, 5777, March 26, 2017.

Joel 2:27-29, says, "And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel (i.e., the Second Advent is past), and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward (i.e., after the Second Advent), that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit."

For more about the Second Advent, plus the dates of the beginning and end of the shortened 2300-day Tribulation, see my Home Page. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Jordan's Abdullah invites Israeli, PA, U.S. delegates to peace talks

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/848221.html

14/04/2007 - Jordan's King Abdullah II has invited politicians and peace activists from Israel, the United States and the Palestinian territories for discussions in Amman as part of an effort to push forward the stalled Middle East peace process, officials said Saturday.

Meanwhile, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni will meet Sunday evening with her Jordanian counterpart for talks that will touch on the 2002 Saudi peace initiative ratified for a second time at the Arab League summit in Riyadh last month.

Thousands of Jews Visit Tombs of Joshua, Calev

by Hillel Fendel
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/122103

(IsraelNN.com) Some 5,000 Jews availed themselves last night (Thursday) of the IDF's offer to safeguard the area of the Arab village of Kifel Heres so that they could visit the holy sites. The area lies immediately to the north of the city of Ariel....

Joshua and Calev were the only ones of the 12 Spies dispatched by Moses who returned with an encouraging report of the Land of Israel.

Pamphlets with special prayers were handed out to the thousands of visitors. The prayers included mentions of the special merit of the three holy men in that they experienced the Exodus from Egypt, the receiving of the Torah on Mt. Sinai, and the conquest of the Promised Land.

The event was organized by the Shomron Local Religious Council. "People came from far and near," said one organizer, "representing the hareidi, hassidic, religious-Zionist and traditional sectors. It was moving to see them all come together to proclaim the call of Joshua and Calev, 'Let us ascend to the Land and inherit it, for we will be able to succeed.'...

Dov Shapira, head of the local religious council, gave a deluxe edition of the Bible, accompanied by Joshua's blessing "Be strong and of great courage," to the head of the IDF Nachshon Regiment, in recognition of the army's cooperation in the complex operation.

My reply to Jim Bramlett (on Five Doves site), Re: Valerie's Tombstone, Sept. 10, 2007, might mean Rapture passed

> > From Valerie at Skyblue21_2007, posted March 19, 2007. THE RAPTURE WILL TAKE PLACE IN SEPTEMBER 2007. THE EXACT DAY OR HOUR IS STILL UNKNOWN. HOWEVER, THE DREAM I HAD AWHILE BACK ABOUT SEEING A TOMBSTONE WITH THE WORD RAPTURE AND "SEPT. 10, 2007". IT SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE THE MONTH AND YEAR NOW.

The tombstone might mean that the Rapture is dead, R. I. P., i.e., has already passed, by Sept. 10, 2007, which is three days before the Feast of Trumpets (Sept. 13, 2007).

We need to be ready before Iyar 26, 5767, May 14, 2007, Ascension Day. The Six-Day War of 1967 started on Iyar 26, 5727, Ascension Day. One 40-year generation later is Iyar 26, 5767, exactly. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Solomons island raised up

Thank you for the latest rapture news!!!

This thought just struck me as I was reading this headline:

"Quake lifts Solomons island out of the sea"

We know in the Songs of Solomon, the Bride is "lifted up" and away..........ie...Sol 2:13.."rise up, my love, my fair one and come away!". (emphasis mine) and it mentions the springtime as well.

God leaves markers for us to see, methinks. Not a biggie but it just seemed to connect for me. Soon and very soon!!!!!!!!!!!!

My reply

Thanks for making this connection. I hadn't thought of it. I knew the tsunami was a sign because Luke 21:25 says, "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; THE SEA AND THE WAVES ROARING".

Verse 28 adds, "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." The ISV has "your deliverance is near." Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: the second death

Matt, The reason that I spoke of the "death of the soul" was that we were talking about "the second death" (Rev.20:14).

You and Brother Riley are zealous to defend the truth, and you are convinced that eternal conscious torment is the truth. I honor your motive. But I believe you have inherited a tradition that is, in the final analysis, based on a presupposition that all human souls are immortal. That presuppositioin requires that you must reinterpret the plain words of Scripture and make them mean something else.

I believe God will, after the last judgment, literally destroy the souls of those who are condemned. You deny that and base your denial on the idea that the Greek words for perish and destroy can't possibly mean more than "ruin" or something similar. I know you can find some scholars that will agree with you, but there are other scholars who disagree. Here are some:

R. F. Weymouth, who translated the New Testament into English (first published in 1903) directly from the Greek, after many years of intensive study of textual criticism, wrote:

"My mind fails to conceive a grosser misinterpretation of language than when the five or six strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying ‘destroy’, or ’destruction’, are explained to mean maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence. To translate black as white is nothing to this."

An article at http://www.christianity.co.nz/life_death11.htm comments on the terms:

Frequent terminology used in relation to the final state of the lost is that relating to “destruction”. The commonest Greek words used are the verb apollumi (to destroy) and the noun apòleia (destruction). When the verb is active and transitive it means to “kill”. It is used in this sense when Herod wanted to kill the baby Jesus and when the Jewish leaders plotted to have him executed (Matthew 2:13; 12:14; 27:20). It is used at least twenty-two times in this plain sense. Jesus used this word when he talked of God destroying “both soul and body in hell” (Matthew 10:28; cf. James 4:12). Stott comments, “If to kill is to deprive the body of life, hell would seem to be the deprivation of both physical and spiritual life, that is, an extinction of being.”

When this verb is used in the middle and intransitive tense, then it means to be destroyed and so to “perish”. It is used often of perishing physically (e.g. Luke 15:17; 1 Corinthians 10:9), but also, in about nine instances, of those who perish spiritually. Unbelievers are spoken of as “those who are perishing” (1 Corinthians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 2:15; 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:10). The word used in 1 Thessalonians 5:3 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is olethros, which also means “ruin” or “destruction”. John Stott comments on the use of these terms:

"It would seem strange, therefore, if people who are said to suffer destruction are in fact not destroyed; and…it is difficult to imagine a perpetually inconclusive process of perishing. It cannot, I think, be replied that it is impossible to destroy human beings because they are immortal, for the immortality—and therefore indestructibility—of the soul is a Greek not a biblical concept."

John Stott is a British evangelical who is one of the most highly respected conservatives in the world. He's written dozens of books, and has stood strong for the gospel and sound theology for many, many years.

In Clarke’s Commentary on Psalm 73, he explains why he doesn't believe in annihilationism; but before that he admits that the Hebrew word "perish" can mean annihilate.

Verse 27. They that are far from thee shall perish ] The term perish is generally used to signify a coming to nothing, being annihilated; and by some it is thus applied to the finally impenitent, they shall all be annihilated.

http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkepsa73.htm
I need some sleep.

My reply

I'm glad you sent me a carbon copy. You said, "I believe God will, after the last judgment, literally destroy the souls of those who are condemned."

I can give you my view very quickly. The soul that sinneth will die.

Eze. 18:20 is very easy to understand. It doesn't beat around the bush. It plainly says, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

However, I can't find any place in the Bible that says that the spirit of man can die. I take it that the spirit of man is the worm that can't die. We need to be sure that we understand that there is both a spirit of man and a Spirit of God. 1Cor 2:11 says, "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the SPIRIT OF MAN which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."

In Mark 9:43-48, Jesus said, "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED." Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Found your site! I have a question.

I have been a non-rapture person for many years but an experience of late has convinced me otherwise. I have been studying earnestly since then on this subject and have come to many of the same conclusions you have.

I wondered about one of your points and would hope you would clarify it for me? You said you believe day of Ascension or Pentecost for this years possibility of the rapture. I was studying and find the "New Year" or the "Day of Trumpets" on Sept 13-14 is more likely as it is the next scheduled Jewish calendar Holiday after Pentecost plus the phrase used to refer to this day by Jewish tradition is "No man shall know the day or the hour" since the trumpet blows not at a day but on a heavenly sign of the new moon.

Anyway its coming soon and very glad for your website. See you in the air very soon!

My reply

There are so many things that will happen on the Feast of Trumpets (Christ's Coronation, Marriage of the Lamb, Judgment Seat of Christ, God's wrath, etc.) at the end of the shortened Tribulation, including the second Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, that I don't think the first Rapture, the Pre-Trib Rapture, would be on that day too.

According to the Song of Solomon 2:10-14, the Rapture of the Bride of Christ will be in the spring. Winter is past. There are flowers. April showers bring May flowers. The turtledoves are back, and they return in April. The grapes are blossoming and putting forth the first grapes, suggesting late May or early June. This passage is literally "the secret of the stairs." Like Jacob's ladder, these stairs reach Heaven.

Song of Solomon 2:10-14 says, "My beloved (i.e., Christ) spake, and said unto me (the Bride), RISE UP, my love, my fair one, and COME AWAY (i.e., at the first Rapture). For, lo, the winter is past (i.e., it is spring), the rain is over and gone (i.e., Nisan, time of the latter rain, is over, Tishri, time of the former rain, has not yet come); The flowers appear on the earth (May); the time of the singing of birds is come (spring), and the voice of the turtle (lit., turtledove) is heard in our land; The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. ARISE, my love, my fair one, and COME AWAY. O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock (i.e., in Christ), in THE SECRET places (this word omitted in the original) OF THE STAIRS, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely." Gen. 28:12 says that Jacob, "dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it."

Rev. 3:7,8 says, "to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name." This open door is in Heaven.

Rev. 4:1 says, "behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet (the first trump of God, I Thess. 4:13-16) talking with me; which said, Come up hither".

This is the first Rapture, the Pre-Trib Rapture. These saints are out of every nation on Earth. They all sing the NEW SONG. Rev 5:8-10 says, "...saints. And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth." This group will be kings and priests. They are in Heaven before Jesus receives the seven-sealed Title Deed of the Earth.

The 144,000 Israelite saints are not in this group. We see them in Heaven after the second Rapture. Rev. 7:9,14,15 says, "I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple." These are not said to be kings.

The 144,000 are among the Tribulation saints, but only the 144,000 can sing the NEW SONG. The 144,000 are added to the Bride of Christ group that was caught up at the first trump of God, the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Rev 14:2-5 says, "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder (the 'last trump' of God, I Cor. 15:51,52): and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits (they are the last rank of the firstfruits, I Cor. 15:23) unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are WITHOUT FAULT before the throne of God."

> > "No man shall know the day or the hour" since the trumpet blows not at a day but on a heavenly sign of the new moon.

The time of the first crescent Moon is now figured mathematically. The day of the Feast of the Trumpets can be known. NASA's Fred Espenak has published charts of eclipses for every year.

"Partial Solar Eclipse: 2007 Sep 11" (http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html

Thus, the dark of the moon is Sept. 11, 2007. The usual phase to the new crescent Moon is 2 days, but let's be sure.

Go to: http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Yoursky

Select Universal time. Fill in "2007-09-13 16:00". Set latitude and longitude for Jerusalem. Select the Ecliptic and equator, Moon and planets, Constellation Outlines, Names, and Boundaries. Choose the white on black background color. Then click Update at the top. On the right side, you will see the new crescent Moon in Virgo.

> > Jewish tradition is "No man shall know the day or the hour"

I haven't seen anyone back that up with a quotation from Jewish writings. We already know the day, and the time when the New Crescent Moon is looked for is actually just the 45 minutes that follow sunset, which can be figured out easily. The exact time of the New Moon is listed on Fred Espenak's chart below. The astronomers can figure the time when the New Crescent Moon can be seen. We can come close by just adding 2 days.

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/phase/phase2001gmt.html

Year New Moon First Quarter Full Moon Last Quarter

2007,
Jul 14 12:04 Jul 22 06:29 Jul 30 00:48 Aug 5 21:20
Aug 12 23:03 Aug 20 23:54 Aug 28 10:35 t Sep 4 02:33
Sep 11 12:44 P Sep 19 16:48 Sep 26 19:45 Oct 3 10:06
Oct 11 05:01 Oct 19 08:33 Oct 26 04:52 Nov 1 21:18
Nov 9 23:03 Nov 17 22:32 Nov 24 14:30 Dec 1 12:44
Dec 9 17:40 Dec 17 10:17 Dec 24 01:16 Dec 31 07:51

The Jews in charge of the calendar can figure the day, hour, minutes and parts of a minute since the first New Moon of 3760 BC. I'm not much of a mathematician, and I was able to reconstruct the Jewish Calendar for 5 BC using their formulas. They can figure out mathematically when the New Moon of New Years Day will be for the following year, then fill in the type of year before it that has the correct number of days up to that time. The number of days from Passover to Trumpets is always constant, so the feasts drop into place easily. Therefore, when the date for Passover is known, the date for Trumpets is also known. The date for Trumpets a year in advance is what regulates their calendar for the previous year, and since it is a year ahead, they can't look for that crescent yet. They have to figure it mathematically, then check their work when it rolls around next year.

I don't know how far back it was when they started figuring it out mathematically, but it seems to have been figured that way as a check even when they still looked for the crescent moon in the evening sky. Agape

Pro and` Con 1331 Or Return

Contact me for more information at: mjagee1@earthlink.net

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